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Talk:Bard song
History Moved from Bard Song category -- Austicke 12:58, 1 Jun 2005 (PDT) AC Type on Bard Song What AC type is granted with the song and how does it stack? DaBear 09:35, 16 Nov 2005 (PST) *pretty sure it's normal dodge AC--Defunc7 14:06, 16 Nov 2005 (PST) * Yes, it's Dodge. -- Austicke 17:01, 16 Nov 2005 (PST) Song while Shifted/Polymorphed This ability can be used while shifted or polymorphed. Is that worth while to add a note? DaBear 08:32, 9 Dec 2005 (PST) *I say yes. -- Austicke 09:33, 9 Dec 2005 (PST) *Definitely -- Chrominium 11:12, 9 Dec 2005 (PST) *I don't think it needs a note about polymorph. Almost every feat works when shapeshifted. Spellcasting, item use etc are 100% disabled though.--Defunc7 13:27, 9 Dec 2005 (PST) Sorting I think it would be easier to use this table if it was sorted by class level in ascending order (ala grimoire). Generally people design builds around class levels and not perform ranks. -- Jjjhhhlll 14:17, 21 Dec 2005 (PST) *It is sorted by class level. Do you mean swap the perform and class level columns so level is first? I don't have a problem with that. I agree with you about changing the order. I think all the other NWNWiki tables are in ascending order, so this one is backwards (which is probably my error). Also, whatever is done here should be repeated with Curse Song. -- Austicke 14:25, 21 Dec 2005 (PST) :* yeah switch columns. they both sort the same because of the relationship between class level and perform skill. -- Jjjhhhlll 14:50, 21 Dec 2005 (PST) New Table I fixed up the table (though I was somehow logged off). What does everyone think? --Countess Terra 18:02, 8 January 2006 (PST) *Looks great. Thanks! Wanna do Curse Song too? -- Alec Usticke 19:24, 8 January 2006 (PST) Hey, quick question: both this (awesome) table and the grimoire say class level 16 song needs 30 skill points in perform. My in-game feat description and game manual both say level 16 only needs 25 SP for the song to improve. Is this a confirmed instance where the in-game and manual are wrong? If so, we might note that difference to avoid confusion. Thanks, --Zenobia 23:49, 21 May 2006 (PDT) *First off, the wiki information might be wrong. So it might be a good idea to test to see which correct. Ingame or Wiki. Then when someone know the difference it would be good idea to make a note. -- Pstarky 02:59, 22 May 2006 (PDT) :*I tested and the chart is correct/ the in-game is wrong: you need 30. I added a note, Zenobia 11:22, 22 May 2006 (PDT) Builder notes The bard song 20 feat is prequisite for Lasting Inspiration. So the builder notes aren't 100% correct. Also as far as I know the type of the damage bonus doesn't really matter. If you use a piercing weapon the additional damage will be piercing damage as well (even if the char sheet shows it as bludgeoning damage).--Kamiryn 08:01, 24 January 2006 (PST) *well since NPC builds doesn't require to full fill the prerequirements that doesn't matter. the script doesn't check if the feats exists. :and the bludgeon type do matter when you fight certain monsters. (resistance/weakness) --CID-78 24 January 2006 What exactly is "The feats bard song 2 to 20 are absolute" supposed to mean? What makes a feat "absolute"? Or was that word supposed to be "obsolete" or maybe "needless"? (Not that either of those are entirely accurate, but I can see someone thinking they are, then getting "absolute" and "obsolete" confused.) --The Krit 01:32, 10 April 2009 (UTC) * I am going to remove that note until CID-78 (or someone else) clarifies what is meant. --The Krit (talk) 18:15, July 23, 2012 (UTC) song extension sequence A note says, "The feat Lingering Song increases the duration by 5 rounds (15 rounds total). The feat Lasting Inspiration increases the duration 10 times (100 rounds total). They stack, but the Lingering Song is applied first; so, with both feats, the duration is 105 rounds." But that math does not work... (10 + 5) * 10 = 150; so it's should be "Lasting Inspiration is applied first" for 10 * 10 + 5 = 105. Or sequence is irrelevent and the *10 only applies to the base. Fitz 07:35, 11 April 2006 (PDT) *Yes, i must have misread it last night when i did a few fixes to it. Fixed it again.GhostNWN 09:45, 11 April 2006 (PDT) how is it possible to get 100 perform skill Hi. Just thinkin is it possible to get 100 perform skill without some item what gives about +20 to perform... If someone know good tips to increase perform skill that can be in article too. -- 21 November 2006 * Let's do the math... max basic skill ranks (43) + skill focus (3) + epic skill focus (10) yields a maximum of 56 plus CHA, item, and temporary bonuses. Let's assume a maximum buffed CHA of 48 (+19), so that brings us up to 75. Assuming there's a skill bonus cap of 20 from items or effects like ability bonus or AB bonus caps, and maybe that can get to 95. I just don't see how to squeeze those last few points out, though. Faldred 12:33, 21 November 2006 (PST) :* Hmm... Artist feat will give +2. And max buffed charisma can be 50 (+20) (start:18; 1 point to charisma / 4 lvls makes +10; ten times great charimsa feat makes +10; from item and spells +12). So perform skill can be... ::: 43 skill rank + ::: 3 skill focus + ::: 10 epic skill focus + ::: 20 from buffed charisma + ::: 20 from cool item + ::: 2 from artist feat + ::: and perhaps 1 more from charisma if making 30bard + 10rdd (i haven't tested but i think you still can get all ten great charisma feats) :: = 98-99. But how to get one or two more... :: -iglu- 11:33, 22 November 2006 ::* The skill enhancement cap is +50 not +20 Kail Pendragon 04:15, 22 November 2006 (PST) * I believe that the skill bonus granted by using one's bard song applies to the perform skill; so, you can use a bard song to up your perform, then use it again to achieve a stronger song. :-TwoStep 22:30, 8 July 2007 :* Has that technique been tested, TwoStep? I hear that won't work. See The Krit's comment below regarding stacking songs. --Southtown 04:17 19 September 2007 ::* Well it should work, simply the bard himself won't benefit from it. He will be able, though, to sing for himself, then join another party and sing with increased perform score for others. As someone else said, though, the cap is +50. So my maths on this is +50 from item/magical, +43 from base score, and +10 from epic skill focus, which gives you 103 total without even taking any point in charisma... It's pretty easy as you could reach up to 130+ when maxing it -- 30 December 2008 I think it's worth a note that, without a significant assist from items, a perform skill of 100 cannot be achieved via self-buffing by a legit bard. As I see it, the above calculation brings a bard to 43 (max at level 40) + 3 (SF) + 10 (ESF) + 2 (Artist) + 14 (max CHA at level 40) + 2-3 (CHA buffs) = 74-75 without items. Using the bard-song-then-bard-song trick with that perform skill gives another + 14 for a max of 88-89 without items. And, even that is only true 1) at level 40; 2) when dedicating a first-level-only feat, a another pre-epic feat, and 11 epic feats; 3) when eagle's splendor is cast with empower spell (not especially common for bards); and when the bard uses, in essence, 2 bard songs to get the maximum benefit. With a friendly cleric around for prayer, the bard could just hit 90 perform and be able to use the level 28 bard song for the encore. Also, since it was mentioned above, there is no net benefit to perform from 10 levels of RDD. A 30 bard / 10 RDD toon gets +2 CHA, but is left with 10 total epic feats, meaning he has to give up a Great Charisma or ESF. - MrZork (talk) 20:10, February 11, 2014 (UTC) * You are forgetting that taking 5 levels of Harper Scout gives you a stacking charisma buff. So realistically you can hit the full +12 ability bonus (+6 modifier), that is a modified perform score of 78 with everything else factored in. Throw in a bard song and you get up to 92, only 8 short of the 100 goal. WhiZard (talk) 22:57, February 11, 2014 (UTC) :* Good point. But, even with 4+ levels of HS and empowered bard spells, there is only a 1 in 16 chance of capping CHA. And, as you say, even that rarified build is nowhere near hitting 100 on the first bard song and still requires items even with the encore. - MrZork (talk) 01:04, February 12, 2014 (UTC) Multiple bards If there are multiple bards in a party and they both sing, do their songs stack, or how does that work, exactly? --Southtown 05:58, 7 September 2007 * I guess that note isn't clear. I'll fix it. Someone currently affected by a Bard Song will not be affected by a new one. --The Krit 21:08, 7 September 2007 (UTC) Bardsong cap Since perform skill can be higher than 100, can bardsong progress beyond bard level 30? Terocone 18:13, 22 March 2009 (UTC) *Not unless someone goes in and changes the script. --The Krit 17:13, 10 April 2009 (UTC) 0 perform effects? When one uses Perform at a skill of 0, the game engine reports a bonus of +0 Bludgeoning damage. I know from reading all over this article that the damage type is irrelevent, but has anyone noticed that this could have any effect at all on any aspect of combat mechanics? Maybe some weird glitch/ quirk with how damage reduction or immunity reacts to this "bonus"? I think I read once on a forum that supposedly a bonus against a racial type could glitch out certain such mechanics, so I'm just curious if this could do something similar. -- 10:56, 18 December 2011 * I think it's just spurious feedback resulting from the script not aborting if the perform skill is under 3. (What you observed should not require a skill of 0 specifically, but any skill of 2 or less.) --The Krit 18:17, January 10, 2012 (UTC) Spellcraft If bonuses to Spellcraft (not just the ranks) increase the effective bonus to saves vs spells, would that mean that Bard Song gives effectively two bonuses to saving throws, one from the direct saving throw bonus and one from the Spellcraft bonus? I'm just going from what the Spellcraft page says about the saves vs spells including bonuses to Spellcraft. -- 03:23, 8 January 2012 * Yes, but you need a rank in spellcraft to get the saving throw bonus. Also spellcraft saves vs. spells is limited to spells, not traps or default scripted saves. The bard song saving throw bonus applies regardless of circumstance. WhiZard 06:03, January 8, 2012 (UTC) Multiple Voice Disorder Can one Bard be using both Bard Song and Curse Song simultaneously or not? I don't see any notation about it on either Bard Song or Curse Song pages..... -- 03:33, 6 May 2012 * Well there is the note about starting a new song before the old one expires... In any event, sure, you can do anything you want while using a bard song. Cast a spell, start another bard song, or start a curse song. If there was a restriction, it would be mentioned. --The Krit 19:53, May 28, 2012 (UTC)